WB11

                                                   Word of the Buddha

 

We are on page 58, the five methods of expelling evil thoughts. This is the exposition on the sixth factor in the Noble Eightfold Path, Right Effort or SammÈ VÈyÈma. The five methods are mentioned under the heading of the effort to overcome. Actually these five methods were taken from a Sutta in the Collection of Middle Length Sayings or Middle Length Discourses. The name of the Sutta is VitakkasaÓÔhÈna Sutta, the Quieting of Thoughts. There are two translations of that Sutta. The first one is by Venerable ©ÈÓamoli and the second one is by I. B. Horner. At least here we have three translations of the same Sutta. We will compare these three translations and see which is better or which is closer to the original, and which is closer to the interpretation given in the Commentaries.

 

In that Sutta the Buddha said when trying to practice meditation or when trying to develop a higher form of consciousness, then a monk is disturbed by thoughts, distracting thoughts connected with desire, or hate, or delusion. That monk can do one of the five things or the five things to get rid of these unwholesome or unprofitable thoughts.

 

The first method given by the Buddha in that Sutta is on page 103 of the translation by Venerable ©ÈÓamoli. There you see: “When, owing to some sign to which he is giving attention there arise in him evil unprofitable thoughts connected with desire, with hate and with delusion, then some sign other than that sign and connected with what is profitable should be given attention by him.” This is the first method. What do you understand by that? “Some sign other than that sign” - ‘that sign’ means the sign dwelling upon which you get unprofitable thoughts. “Then some sign other than that sign and connected with what is profitable should be given attention by him.”

 

Please look at the other translation by I. B. Horner on page 153. “Herein monks whatever may be the characteristic which a monk attends to, if there arise evil unskilled thoughts associated with desire, associated with aversion, and associated with confusion, that monk should attend instead of to that and associated with confusion, that monk should attend instead of to that characteristic to another characteristic which is skilled.” This is another translation. Here it is said instead of to that characteristic, pay attention to another characteristic which is skilled.

 

Let us look at the translation given in the Word of the Buddha. There it is said: “Then the disciple should by means of this object, gain another and wholesome object.”

 

So what to do? You have three translations of the same PÈÄi sentence. In Venerable ©ÈÓamoli’s translation the word ‘sign’ is used - some sign other than that sign should be given attention. In I. B. Horner’s translation the word ‘characteristic’ is used, instead of to that characteristic attention should be given to another characteristic. And in this book it is said by means of this object gain another, a wholesome object.

 

Now I will tell you what the Commentary says. The PÈÄi word used in this sentence is nimitta. The PÈÄi word ‘nimitta’ can mean a sign, or a characteristic, or an object. Also it has other meanings. The commentary explains that here the word ‘nimitta’ means cause, not object, not characteristic, not sign, but cause. There are different words in PÈÄi meaning cause. Nimitta is one among them. According to the Commentary it should be said that the other cause rather than the cause on which he dwells upon should be paid attention to.

 

What is the other cause, the cause other than what he is dwelling upon? What is the other cause? What is the other nimitta? The Commentary says that if thoughts connected with desire or attachment arise with regard to beings, the development of loathsomeness is another cause or is another nimitta. If the thoughts connected with attachment arise with regard to things, not living beings, but with regard to non-living things, then paying attention to or reflecting upon the impermanence of things is the other nimitta, the other cause. If thoughts connected with or associated with hate or anger arise with regard to living beings, then development of loving-kindness is the other cause. If thoughts connected with things, inanimate things, associated with aversion, then reflection upon the four elements is the other nimitta or the other cause. If thoughts associated with delusion (moha) arise whether with regard to living beings or non-living things, then one should go after five things. They will be explained later.

 

Then the Commentary expanded upon his statements. When looking at a person, you may think that oh, he is handsome or she is beautiful, or her feet are beautiful, or his face is handsome, something like that, attachment to that person, then you should develop asubha (loathsomeness) towards that person. You should ask yourself: What are you attached to? Are you attached to head hairs, body hairs? Are you attached to nails, teeth, skin and so on? Then you should reflect that this body is set up with 300 bones. Are there 300 bones in the body? How many bones are there?

 

Student: It depends on how you count them.

 

Teacher: let’s say there are 300 bones. Then there are 900 sinews, 900 muscles, skin underneath and then skin above it. The body is the place of filth, oozing impurities from nine holes and the pores in the skin. So it is detestable. When you pay attention to the loathsomeness of the body, you will be able to ward off thoughts connected with lobha, connected with desire or attachment.

 

Then if your attachment is towards things - towards your clothes, your bowl for a monk, your robes, or whatever - you should reflect upon their having no possessor or their being temporary. If there is a possessor, if there is someone, who really possessed let us say this robe, then he will not let this robe become old or to have holes and things in it. But since the robe will get old and will become small bits, that means it has no real owner. Although you think you own the robe, you do not own the robe. It is not your robe at all. So you should not be attached to this robe. This robe lasts only for a moment, only for some time, not forever. By reflecting on the temporariness and then the ‘ownerlessness’ of things, you will be able to get rid of thoughts associated with craving or attachment with regard to inanimate things. This is what is called the other nimitta, the other cause.

 

Then if you have thoughts of anger towards a person, what should you do? MettÈ. The practice of or the development of mettÈ towards that person is the other cause here. What about if you are angry with stones, or thorns, or whatever? Sometimes you are angry with inanimate things. Sometimes you are angry with the weather - it’s rainy, or it’s foggy, or something like that. What do you do? Then you develop the reflection on the four great elements. You ask yourself what you are angry with - with the earth element, with the water element, with the fire element, with the wind element. When you break down the thing with which you are angry into these four elements, then your anger will not find any footing. And so it will disappear. So the reflection on the four great elements is the other cause.

 

What about when you have thoughts connected with delusion? Then the Commentary says you have to follow five courses of action. The first is living with a teacher. When you live with a teacher, you have to be alert. You have to make effort. While being alert and making effort, you will be able to get rid of delusion (moha). That is the other cause. The next one is that you try to learn something with a teacher. When you learn something with a teacher, you have to be energetic. You don’t just go to the class and leave the study there. When you try to study something with a teacher, then you make effort and you will be able to get rid of delusion. The next thing is to ask questions about what you have learned. By asking questions of a teacher about what you have learned, you will be able to get rid of moha (delusion). Sometimes it is good to listen to a Dhamma talk. Listening to a Dhamma talk on occasions is also a means to get rid of delusion (moha) or ignorance. The last one is to try and find out actually the cause and effect of everything. This is the cause of this, this is not the cause of this, and so on. Trying to find out the cause and the non-cause of things will also help to get rid of delusion or ignorance. So with regard to the thoughts associated with moha or delusion which arise with regard to beings or things, these five courses of action are the other cause or the other nimitta.

 

Student: Bhante, with regard to #1, when you want to get rid of attachment to living beings, would loathsomeness include not just physical loathsomeness, but character?

 

Teacher: No. It is physical loathsomeness. It is just physical loathsomeness because here you have attachment or craving for a person you think is beautiful.

 

So for the first method what do you suggest? How do we translate that? You are not taking another object, right? From what is explained in the Commentary you have attachment to this person. This person is the object of your mind. Then you are not to take another object. Right? You are to see some other aspect of the same object. So here it is not the changing of the object that the Buddha is suggesting, but it is something like change of attitude. The PÈÄi word used is cause, but it is something like changing the aspect of the object.

 

Student: Changing your perspective?

 

Teacher: Perspective, yes.

 

Student: What about the other side? Looking at the other side.

 

Teacher: I think it is to change the perspective or aspect of the object. You are attached to a person. You like a person. So you try to see that person as loathsome, that his body is not to be attached to, or something like that. It is not changing the object, but changing the attitude or one’s perspective on that object. So the translation in this book is not correct. “By means of this object, gain another and wholesome object” - that is not quite correct. And then wholesome object and unwholesome object - that is problematic. The first method that the Buddha gave is to look at the object in another way, to change the perspective, to change the attitude toward that object and to get id of thoughts connected with attachment or desire.

 

Then another characteristic or another sign is described as what is skillful or what is profitable. Actually an object cannot be said to be kusala or akusala. The PÈÄi word used is kusalasampahitaÑ. That means connected with kusala. ‘Connected with’ here means ‘a condition for kusala’. So the translation here should not say ‘connected with what is profitable’, but ‘what is condition for what is profitable or what is kusala’. It is actually not ‘connected with’ because an object cannot be connected with either kusala or akusala. It may be a grounds for or a condition for kusala or akusala. That is the first one.

 

Then the second one, the second method, what is the second method? I think it is not difficult. On page 153 of I. B. Horner’s translation “Then the peril of these thoughts should be scrutinized by that monk, thinking: indeed these are unskilled thoughts, indeed these are thoughts that have errors, indeed these are thoughts that are of painful results.” In Venerable ©ÈÓamoli’s translation it says: “Those thoughts should be scrutinized by him thus: ‘These thoughts are such that they are unprofitable, that they are reprehensible, that they result in suffering’.” That means to see danger in these thoughts, to see the peril in these thoughts. These thoughts are unwholesome. So they are blameworthy and they will bring painful results. By thinking of or seeing danger in these thoughts, then you will be able to get rid of these thoughts. It is not so difficult.

 

Now akusala thoughts - akusala thoughts are those that are themselves blameworthy and that give painful results. Because of akusala thoughts beings suffer in hell, in the animal kingdom, as ghosts, and also even in the human world people suffer as a result of their bad kamma in the past.  So thoughts connected with akusala give painful results. If we see the danger in these thoughts, the danger of their giving painful results, then we will be able to get rid of them. The second method is to see danger in these thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion. “These thoughts are such that they are unprofitable, that they are reprehensible, that they result in suffering (or they give painful results).” The Commentary does not say much about this second method because it is clear.

 

What is the third one? “Then forgetting of those thoughts and non-attention to them should be tried.” If these thoughts cause you to have other thoughts of desire or craving, just forget about them. Don’t pay attention to them. This is the third method.

 

Student: Where is that?

 

Teacher: In Venerable ©ÈÓamoli’s translation, page 104, paragraph #5, the third line. “Then forgetting of those thoughts and non-attention to them should be tried.” I. B. Horner’s translation is: “That monk should bring about forgetfulness of and lack of attention to those thoughts.” That is on page 154. The third method is to forget about them. Don’t pay attention to them. ‘Don’t pay attention to them’ means ‘be on other objects’. Think of any other thing. So when you have attachment for one thing, you put your mind on other things, other things that do not cause or that are not condition for attachment, hatred, or delusion. This third method is not to pay attention to the object at the present moment, but to dwell on some other objects.

 

According to MahÈsi SayÈdaw this method is helpful for those who have reached a certain stage of vipassanÈ samÈdhi or vipassanÈ knowledge and then they cannot make any progress because they have too much expectation at that time. They have been putting in too much effort. Sometimes you experience some development or some progress in the meditation, and then you have expectations that at any moment enlightenment is coming or something like that. Then you make much effort. The more you put forth effort, the more your mind becomes shaky. And so MahÈsi SayÈdaw said that this method is suitable for those who have reached a certain stage in the knowledge of vipassanÈ and then could not make any progress because of too much expectation and too much effort. In such a case the yogi should be instructed to do some other thing. Or sometimes a yogi is asked to give up meditation and do some other things - go talk with people, do some work at the monastery or something like that.

 

According to the Commentary you should do some other things. In the Commentary it says if you don’t want to see something, you close your eyes. In the same way when this object is causing you thoughts of craving or attachment, don’t take that object. Take another object. When these thoughts have disappeared, you go back to your meditation. Only for as long as these thoughts arise do you go away from meditation and put your mind on some other thing. When these thoughts have disappeared, you go back to meditation. Here it is said that what you should do is just let your mind be on some other object and then if it disappears, go back to the meditation. But if it doesn’t disappear, then you should recite something you have learned. You should recite aloud something you have learned. Then if that doesn’t help, you can pick up a book and read it, like ‘Itipi so BhagavÈ arahaÑ’ and so on. If it doesn’t help, then you may open your bag and take things out and say: “This is a match. This is a stick. This is a knife. This is a nail-clipper. This is a needle.” So you take one thing after another saying this is this, this is this. In that way you will be able to get rid of the other thoughts. If it doesn’t help, then you may take the needle and mend your robes. You may have something to mend in your robes. So you mend your robes. Then when these thoughts disappear, you go back to the basic meditation.

 

First it says in the Commentary although it is good to do some other things, don’t try to do some building work at the monastery because it may take you a long time to complete the building work. So you will get away from meditation all together. So don’t set upon doing building work at the monastery, but other things you may do. Then the Commentary said that even by doing the building work, some people were able to get rid of the thoughts of attachment or these thoughts.

 

Once there was a sÈmaÓera. He had thoughts of going back to lay life. His teacher knew about him. So his teacher told him to build a kuti for him. So he started to build the kuti. When it was finished he said: “Bhante, the kuti is finished.” The teacher said: “Oh, this kuti is very good. It is quiet. It is a nice place. Why don’t you live there tonight?” So he said enjoy the kuti this night. Staying in that kuti, the sÈmaÓera got rid of the distracting thoughts, the thoughts connected with attachment and so on. He was able to become enlightened. So even by doing building work at the monastery, you can get rid of the distracting thoughts. But it is not recommended for a meditator because it can take you into building work for a long time. This is the third method. What is the third method? Don’t pay attention. Go to some other object.

 

Let us read this book. #2 is “Or, he should reflect on the misery of these thoughts.” That is right. #3 is “Or, he should pay no attention to these thoughts.” This is also correct.

 

Now we come to the fourth method. Every translator stumbles on this fourth method. What is the fourth method? “Then settling of thought formations should be given attention by him with respect to these thoughts.” What does that mean? Do you understand that? It’s in English. Let’s see I. B. Horner. “That monk should attend to the thought function and form of these thoughts.” Do you understand that? No? Or what does The Word of the Buddha say? “Or, he should consider the compound nature of these thoughts.” It sounds nice. Right?

 

Student: What does it mean, Bhante?

 

Teacher: First you must understand the PÈÄi word used here. The PÈÄi word used here is vitakkasa~khÈrasaÓÔhÈna. It is three words combined into one word, vitakksa~khÈrasaÓÔhÈna. The word ‘sa~khÈra’ is a very difficult word in PÈÄi. So Venerable ©ÈÓamoli translated sa~khÈra as thought formations. I. B. Horner translated it as thought formations. You may have come across the words ‘kÈyasa~khÈra’ or ‘vÈcisa~khÈra’. There are three words here - vitakka, sa~khÈra, saÓÔhÈna. The Commentary explains that the word ‘sa~khÈra’ here means ‘something that makes’. So ‘vitakkasa~khÈra’ means the maker of vitakka or the cause of vitakka. What about the word ‘saÓÔhÈna’? SaÓÔhÈna in one translation is said to be the form of these thoughts. In another, in Venerable ©ÈÓamoli’s translation, it says what? Settling. So settling or form is the translation of the PÈÄi word ‘saÓÔhÈna’. The PÈÄi word ‘saÓÔhÈna’ can mean form or settling. But here the word ‘saÓÔhÈna’ is made to mean an origin. An origin is where the product rests; that is why it is called saÓÔhÈna. ‘SaÓÔhÈna’ means ‘to stand’ or ‘to rest’. Origin is called ‘saÓÔhÈna’ because it is where the result or product rests or stands. This long PÈÄi word just means the origin of the cause of distracting thoughts.

 

Student: ‘Vitakka’ means?

 

Teacher: Thoughts. ‘Vitakka’ here does not mean just initial application, like in Abhidhamma. It means just thoughts. So ‘vitakkasa~khÈrasaÓÔhÈna’ means ‘the origin of the cause of that vitakka’. So you have to go to the very root of vitakka. That is what is meant here. So thought formations, or of thoughts, or compound nature won’t do here. All three translations are wrong with regard to the fourth method. The fourth method is that you must go to the real origin or real root of these thoughts.

 

We have two here - vitakkasa~khÈra (cause of vitakka) and vitakkasa~khÈrasaÓÔhÈna (origin of cause of vitakka). So there are two causes or two origins of vitakka - first the cause and then the cause of that cause. There are two stages of causes. The Sub-Commentary explains that ‘cause of thoughts’ means the reflection on things as beautiful, even on beautiful things as beautiful. Let us say that you see a thing which is beautiful. You reflect upon it as beautiful. That is a cause of vitakka because when you think that a thing is beautiful. Then you are liable to be attached to it. Attachment comes when you have the reflection that it is beautiful. You think it is beautiful because you have the wrong perception of it. So the wrong perception as thinking what is ugly is beautiful, what is not beautiful is beautiful, is the origin or the reflection of your thinking it is beautiful. The thinking that it is beautiful is the origin or cause of your attachment. So there is attachment. The cause of attachment is taking it to be beautiful. You take it to be beautiful because you have a wrong perception of that object. So there is wrong perception, and then reflection or contemplation, and then the attachment. There are these three stages. Here what the Buddha meant is to go to the root or the very origin of these thoughts. Try to find out why you have these thoughts. When you are able to see the root, or the cause, or the origin of these thoughts, then these thoughts will disappear.

 

Student: What does it mean, Bhante, to have the wrong perception of something which leads it to be seen as beautiful? For example, if you see an object and you see it as beautiful, and you realize that the object is not beautiful. Arising with the sight is a pleasant vedanÈ (a pleasant feeling), and this gives us pleasure, and this is the origin of beautiful - is that what they mean here by the origin of why we think something is beautiful?

 

Teacher: Actually, truly we are taught to see things as not beautiful. Beautiful things are actually not beautiful. They are not permanent. So the perception is that which takes things to be beautiful. Depending upon that perception, we have real thinking that it is beautiful. First we think that it is beautiful and then we are convinced that it is beautiful. And then because we think it is beautiful, we have attachment to it.

 

Student: We think it is beautiful and then we relate to it as it is beautiful. Then comes the attachment. So the wrong perception is thinking that there is some inherent quality in the object?

 

Teacher: No inherent quality, but just looking on the surface.

 

Student: Maybe conventionally it is beautiful, but in an absolute sense it is not.

 

Teacher: That’s right. Yes.Student: What about in the case of hatred? Teacher: Because of these perceptions you can be angry with it. You may perceive something to be not beautiful. Then when it is thought that it is not beautiful, then there may be aversion. I may get angry with you because I take you to be a being and you do something offensive to me or whatever. But when I see you are not a being but just a combination of the five aggregates, then the anger does not have any footing and disintegrates or something like that. Student: So you are saying that seeing things as beautiful is the conventional way of looking at things, but if we look at the reality, they are always perishing. Teacher: Yes. Student: So that is like seeing the emptiness in something.Teacher: Not just the emptiness. Here it is going to the root of thoughts. So why am I attached to this person? Because I __ÞÇ______ÞÇ______ÞÇ______¶Ç__(___¬¼______¶Ç______¬¼______¶Ç_______È______________àû8òåÂ_À¼__b___"½__¤___¬¼______¬¼______¬¼______¬¼______¶Ç_______È______ÞÇ__(___ÞÇ____________________________________________________________________________________________                                                           WB11                                                   Word of the BuddhaWe are on page 58, the five methods of expelling evil thoughts. This is the exposition on the sixth factor in the Noble Eightfold Path, Right Effort or SammÈ VÈyÈma. The five methods are mentioned under the heading of the effort to overcome. Actually these five methods were taken from a Sutta in the Collection of Middle Length Sayings or Middle Length Discourses. The name of the Sutta is VitakkasaÓÔhÈna Sutta, the Quieting of Thoughts. There are two translations of that Sutta. The first one is by Venerable ©ÈÓamoli and the second one is by I. B. Horner. At least here we have three translations of the same Sutta. We will compare these three translations and see which is better or which is closer to the original, and which is closer to the interpretation given in the Commentaries. In that Sutta the Buddha said when trying to practice meditation or when trying to develop a higher form of consciousness, then a monk is disturbed by thoughts, distracting thoughts connected with desire, or hate, or delusion. That monk can do one of the five things or the five things to get rid of these unwholesome or unprofitable thoughts. The firÜ¥h_Wà          ___Ä_e_______________|___Ìâ___________________Ÿ___________________________________was in __¼__¬___¬¼______¬¼______¬¼______¬¼______¬¼______4Ç______ƽ__n          __4Ç______4Ç______4Ç______DÇ__"___fÇ__(___4Ç______Íá__>___ŽÇ______ŽÇ__(___¶Ç______¶Ç______¶Ç______¶Ç______¶Ç______¶Ç_______È_______È_______È_______È__C___KÈ__Ô___­É__Ô___óÉ__‑___
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_____¶Ç_______¶Ç______¶Ç_______Ê______ÞÇ______¬¼______¬¼______¶Ç______________________ŽÇ____ful. They say it because they are attached to their children, not the other way around. They don’t think the child is beautiful and because of that they are attached to it.Teacher: I think it is both ways. ‘Beautiful’ means that they are the objects of affection. When you think this is an object of affection, then affection follows. Student: What would you call the physical, almost the animal instinct to protect the child? Animals have it also.Teacher: Yes.Student: That’s deeper than thinking isn’t it?Teacher: yes. When talking about Abhidhamma, we have to enlarge everything. Thought moments have to be seen in an enlarged picture. What we call instinct - we react to things instinctively. But even in that instinct there are moments of thought, many, many moments of thought. Actually what we think of as spontaneity may not be so when it is analyzed in terms of ultimate analysis. The mind works so fast that we think that we react to it spontaneously. Still there is some kind of thinking there. Student: Bhante, could you say again how Venerable MahÈsi SayÈdaw explained this as catching the moment. You used the word ‘imagination’. Is that the same as perception? Teacher: In Burmese it is called subtle imagination or subtle thought. Sometimes you are paying attention to the object of meditation. Then you have some kind of thinking to go to another object, to take another object. That subtle imagination will lead you to be distracted. If you can catch that subtle imagination there, then there will be no distraction, no wandering of the mind.Student: That would be the origin of the cause of the distraction.Teacher: Yes. When you pay real good attention to the meditation object and when you have acquired some degree of samÈdhi, then you will be able to see these subtle thoughts preceding the real thoughts. It is like your minding a child. It is about to go outside and then you say ‘hum’. Then it doesn’t go out. It is something like that during meditation. First you think that your mind is going out and you catch it so that it doesn’t go out at all.

 

Student: Mostly inaudible - something about slowing it down.

 

Teacher: It’s not that you slow it down. But your mind becomes quicker, faster. With the power of samÈdhi your mind or knowledge becomes faster. So you are able to see these things.

 

Student: This is a much more subtle and demanding response to disquieting thoughts than the first three isn’t it? This presupposes a capacity for concentration where the other three don’t.

 

Teacher: Yes. That’s right or at least paying strong attention. So the fourth method is to go to the very root or origin of thoughts. It is not like ‘thought formations’. So they don’t mean anything at all. Here also, “Or, he should consider the compound nature of these thoughts.” That is not so bad, but it is not the meaning of the word ‘vitakkasa~khÈrasaÓÔhÈna’. Because there is the word ‘sa~khÈra’ he said ‘the compound nature’. There is no translation of the word ‘saÓÔhÈna’. I just want to show you that it is very difficult to get the correct meaning of PÈÄi in some cases. So I would like to encourage you to study PÈÄi.

 

Student: You should consider writing a book on your ten favorite mistakes in translations.

 

Teacher: Maybe one day. Next is the fifth method. That is: “With his teeth clenched, with his tongue pressed against his palate, he should by his mind subdue, restrain and dominate the mind.” ‘By his mind’ means by kusala mind and ‘dominate the mind’ means the akusala mind. So he is to suppress the akusala mind with the kusala mind. That is the fifth method. ‘Clenching his teeth and pressing his tongue against the palate’ means making a great effort. You just be mindful of it or make notes of it. This is the last one, the fifth method.

 

In Venerable ©ÈÓamoli’s translation it says: “With his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth he should beat down, constrain and crush mind with mind.” ‘Mind with mind’ means crush the akusala mind with the kusala mind. Thoughts connected with desire and so on are the akusala mind.

 

Let’s read The Word of the Buddha. “With teeth clenched and tongue pressed against the gums, he should with his mind restrain, suppress and root out these thoughts; and I doing so these evil and unwholesome thoughts of greed, hatred and delusion will dissolve and disappear; and the mind will inwardly become settled and calm, composed and concentrated.”

 

This is not a particular method. This is what people are doing when they practice meditation. This it the method Venerable MahÈsi SayÈdaw recommended for those who practice on a short term basis. ‘A short term basis’ means for ten days, a month, two months, or three months. So people should really make effort to beat down upon the akusala mind with the kusala mind. That means perseveringly making notes of or paying attention to these thoughts. Like ‘thinking, thinking, thinking’, something like that, making them the object of meditation.

 

Student: It becomes such a problem in that it becomes confused in my mind with repression. It seems like it is not acknowledging it or coming to grips with it in any meaningful way.

 

Teacher: Yes. Here ‘to beat down upon’ means just to make them the object of meditation, to turn these thoughts into an object of meditation.

 

Student: What about ill will?

 

Teacher: Whatever it is. If you are angry, you make anger the object of meditation.

 

Student: But you are not to relate to the thoughts with aversion.

 

Teacher: No. There should just be mindfulness of the anger or hatred. These are the five methods. Venerable MahÈsi SayÈdaw said that the other methods may be suitable for those who are practicing on a long term basis - for ten years, fifteen years. Those who are practicing on a short term basis should stick to the fifth method, that is just paying attention to the thoughts themselves.

 

Student: The fourth method would be used under extraordinary conditions of samÈdhi in order to see the origins and causes of things.

 

Teacher: Yes. One needs some knowledge.

 

Student: The first three methods seem similar to what is taught in the Thai tradition by Venerable Ajahn Chah. These seem suitable for everyday consciousness. Tell me if I’m wrong. For example one can change one’s perspective on a thought in everyday consciousness. Or one can reflect on the unsatisfactory consequences of a certain lifestyle. Or one can try to distract oneself from compulsive thoughts. They seem almost more applicable to macroscopic consciousness than to moment to moment awareness.

 

Teacher: Yes. That’s right.

 

Student: Bhante, isn’t there danger in paying too much attention to akusala? You become involved.

 

Teacher: No. Not involved. The awareness is paying attention without being involved in it. You are not thinking of akusala. You have these thoughts. You are just acknowledging them. You are just watching them. You are not with the thoughts. You are taking the thoughts as object. The mindfulness meditation is awareness without being involved. It is like looking at something happening in the distance. You are not involved in that incident; you are a spectator. It is something like that.

 

Student: How can you be mindful with effort? It says with teeth clenched and so on. Can you do an effort to be mindful?

 

Teacher: Yes. This is saying to make effort to be mindful. Mindfulness must be helped by effort or energy. That is because if there is no effort, there can be no mindfulness. Later on we will find that along with energy there are other factors also. In the Visuddhi Magga it also says that concentration cannot come if there is no mindfulness. Mindfulness cannot be there if you do not make effort. In order to get concentration you have to make effort to be mindful. When mindfulness supported by effort is well established there is concentration. So we need effort, mental effort to keep mindfulness. The moment we lose effort, we lose mindfulness.

 

Student: I see how we can make effort to concentrate, but how can we make effort to be mindful?

 

Teacher: ‘To be mindful’ means to be aware of the object. To be aware of the object you need some kind of effort.

 

Student: To be mindful is to be open to the object? If I try too hard, then I’m thinking about trying.

 

Teacher: Yes. If you try too hard, then you will get agitated. That’s right. Here these persisting thoughts come to you. Since they are persisting, you have to make effort to drive them away. If they are not so strong in persisting, you may not make much effort.

 

Student: Bhante, could you give an example of the first one where one changes one’s perspective, where one sees the kusala aspects or characteristics of that which is arising?

 

Teacher: The first method is to change the perspective with regard to the object. If you have desire with regard to the object, you try to see its loathsomeness. If you have anger toward that object, you try to practice mettÈ towards that object. There are two kinds of objects - living beings and non-living things. With regard to living beings if you have thoughts of desire, try to develop asubha (loathsomeness). And with regard to things try to develop impermanence. See the impermanence of things. If there is anger with regard to a person, you practice mettÈ. With regard to things you try to break them down into the four elements.

 

Student: You said that you can see that there is no owner. Does that have anything to do with anatta?

 

Teacher: Yes. When I am attached to this book, then I think that I am the owner of this book. I own this book. This is my book. That is why I am attached to it. What to think about this book is: This book will become old and it will not last forever. If it has a real owner, then the owner will protect it from getting old, from falling to pieces and so on. So in fact there is no owner at all. I am not the owner of this book. I am not the real owner of this book. It is something like that.

 

Student: There is still something that I do not understand from the earlier part of the evening. In the second one, there one tries to see the danger or consequences of these thoughts. If one sees a beautiful object and tries to regard it as a corpse around one’s neck, how is that different from the first one where one sees the loathsome aspects of a desirable object?

 

Teacher: This is the danger in these thoughts, not the object. It is the danger in the thoughts, not the object. Since they are akusala thoughts, they are going to bring painful results. That is the danger in akusala.

 

Student: So the first one is to relate to the object differently and the second one is to relate to the thoughts.

 

Teacher: Yes.

 

Student: Couldn’t the second one be the cause of the first one? I see that thoughts are bad for me. Then I am looking for a technique to change the thoughts. Then I am looking at -

 

Teacher: When you see the danger in thoughts, then you don’t have to go to the first method. They are just dispelled. You see the danger. You see danger in akusala and you just stop having akusala. Then you don’t have to change the aspect or whatever.

 

Student: How does the third one work?

 

Teacher: The third one is not paying attention to this.

 

Student: As I have understood the technique, it is to note whatever comes to the mind and to see whatever is there. This seems like something different.

 

Teacher: Yes. That is because even by dwelling on these thoughts you cannot get rid of them. They are so persisting. So it is better to stop doing that and do some other thing. That is so your mind is for some time away from the meditation and the distracting thoughts.

 

Student: That is a particular strategy for obsessive thoughts.

 

Teacher: Yes. Also as Venerable MahÈsi SayÈdaw said it is suitable for those who could not make progress because of too much expectation and because of having put forth too much effort. Sometimes that happens to yogis. They have reached some stage. They cannot go any further. They are discouraged. They try too hard and they are expecting too much. So they give up meditation for some time and do some other things.

 

Student: A teacher would be needed to determine whether they should stop or not?

 

Teacher: Yes. That’s right.

 

Student: So all these methods are for vipassanÈ meditation when it does not work well, if you cannot progress?

 

Teacher: Do you mean all five?

 

Student: Yes.

 

Teacher: Some also apply to the general practice of meditation, not only for vipassanÈ. They may be used for samatha meditation also. One thing is said in the Commentary with regard to the first method. Any subject of meditation is able to dispel these distracting thoughts. These methods are given because they are the direct opposites. When you have attachment, practice asubha. When you have hatred, practice mettÈ and so on. Because they are the direct opposites of lobha and dosa they are given here. It is said that any subject of meditation could help you to get rid of these thoughts. A simile was given. You can put out a fire with dust, or with sticks, but if it is put out with water, it is well put out because water is the direct opposite of fire.

 

Sometimes if you have practiced some kind of samatha meditation and you have some kind of comfort with that meditation, then you may practice that meditation for some time. It is something like a diversion. Sometimes you practice vipassanÈ and you cannot make progress. You are wearied or maybe you are depressed. Then you change to the samatha meditation, which you have practiced before and which you are familiar with for some time. Then you go back to vipassanÈ. For example, people may have practiced recollection of the Buddha meditation or some other kind of meditation. Then they practice vipassanÈ meditation. Then they may become uncomfortable mentally. These thoughts come. So they can go back to samatha meditation for some time and then go back to vipassanÈ meditation.

 

OK. These are the five methods. So in the introduction here ‘the replacement of evil thoughts is not quite correct. The second, the danger of the - yes, that is correct. The third, forgetting and non-attaching - yes, that is correct. The fourth, settling of thought formations is also not correct. The fifth is forcible suppression of them.

 

                               SÈdhu!                  SÈdhu!                 SÈdhu!