TENTH MEETING Wednesday, 19th June, 1974 Tan Acharn: We will start with a talk about meditation. Meditation (Bhavana) is the process of learning about, or looking into, the body, and examining the mind (Citta) and reading the story of the heart, for the Citta writes about various things the whole time, but having written we never read it. Even if we never know that we have thought things that are good or evil on a particular day or time, it is the character of the Citta to like thinking and imagining in various ways, and this will show itself when we practise meditation because the Citta struggles and moves about a lot and cannot remain still and contented. The Citta of ordinary people are generally speaking like this everywhere and it is more difficult to break and stop than anything else. Therefore because the Citta is normally a subtle thing, it must rely on mindfulness and wisdom to supervise and look after it. The more we examine what is wrong and right, evil and good, in ourselves, the more we are likely to find that there is no limit and that the things that are faulty are many. Therefore the principles of Buddhism teach us to contemplate and look at what is good and what is faulty (spoiled) in us, and sometimes it shows things that are unpleasant and sometimes pleasant. The teachings of Buddhism are the best "tools" for doing this and so generally they teach more about the heart than anything else. For the only "tools" that are able to match up to the ways of the heart are the principles of Dhamma, and it depends on us whether we will be able to equip ourselves suitably with these "tools" or not. Making things of all kinds requires the use of tools, and if the craftsman is well skilled these things will be beautiful and useful. This is equally so with one's body, speech, and mind, for the body is like a growing tree which may be either softwood or hardwood, but the thing that matters is that the craftsman takes it and changes it into something useful such as a table or chair, depending on what is wanted. When it is finished it will have become beautiful, ornamental, or useful, according to the type of wood and the ability of the craftsman. Similarly when the body, speech, and mind have been altered and corrected in accordance with the principles of Dhamma by putting forward the utmost effort with full commitment, they will become one's treasure, having more value than all other things. This is because people are not the same as animals, and their value, whether high or low depends on virtue as their wealth, and not on their flesh and hide. The world considers that the value of animals is in their flesh and hide and other parts of the body, and therefore when they die nobody is distressed. But this is not the case with people for they must also have good and seemly behaviour to give assurance of their value. Good behaviour of body, speech, and mind, is the value that raises up human beings and this value and beauty does not alter with time, which differs from the physical body that goes the way of nature and changes all the time. If one has value and virtue as an "ornament" to decorate oneself, this remains and does not deteriorate even when the body gradually deteriorates. It is particularly important when training in meditation (Bhavana) that one should try to restrain one's Citta and stop imagining all sorts of things so that one may get some calm and peace, and then one will begin to see an increase in the value of one's heart. When doing meditation try to let the Citta keep its imagining within the work that one wants to promote, such as "Buddho...Buddho...," which is work that will cause the Citta to become calm. When one tries to do this with interest and with mindfulness to control the Citta, it will be able to attain a state of calm without being troubled by emotionally disturbing objects. The heart which is void of disturbing things will be happy, calm and peaceful, and this will be experienced within the heart at that time. Calm and happiness of heart without any emotionally disturbing things is a happiness that is a most longed for refuge and the Citta which is established with only a "single knowing," was called "Ekaggatacitta" by the Lord. "Ekaggatacitta" is to "know one." It is a happiness of heart that has nothing equal to it. For even though the Lord Buddha who established the profound Dhamma, entered Parinibbana 2517 years ago, the whole excellence of it is still this refuge in which all Buddhists have faith and pay homage to without ceasing. When the end of the "Buddha era" of this Lord Buddha is reached, there will still be another Buddha who will come anew, attain Enlightenment, and teach the world and this will happen again and again endlessly. When the heart becomes calm and breaks free from emotionally disturbing things one will immediately know the wonder of the heart, even though one has never known it before, because this is a most strange and wonderful thing in the life of someone who has never known calm of heart. When the Citta is calm it is not liable to have any thoughts and imaginations giving rise to emotionally disturbing things to trouble oneself and cause confusion and distraction but it remains in a state of Eka Citta, Eka Dhamma [*] and it just stays in this state until it rises up and withdraws from it. After this it thinks and imagines various emotionally disturbing things according to its normal habits of thinking and imagining. [*] Eka Citta, Eka Dhamma -- one Citta, one Dhamma If the Citta can go down into a state of calm even just once, it will arouse the enthusiasm in someone who practises in an amazing way and he will hardly be able to forget it for even a day. In fact it will make him try to practise meditation more and more. Therefore someone who has already seen results from practice is likely to put forward strong effort without slacking. Let us respectfully put aside the knowledge that we have learnt from the Buddhist texts for the time being, for I would like to explain enough from this viewpoint of practice to point out the way. Because by learning about Dhamma one must come to know Dhamma and by practising Dhamma one must come to know the results, for the Dhamma has never been a secret thing since the Lord Buddha's Enlightenment up to the present time and the Dhamma which was taught so that we know it now still remains true and is not in the least deficient. The practice which accords with Buddhism is still there to give results which are neither more nor less than was taught in the past -- except that the person who practises may not be capable in the way that those who practised in ancient times were, in which case the results will not be the same, for the causes are insufficient and the results will be weak. Causes without effects do not exist so what or who should one blame? Therefore one should correct one's reasoning, for right now, who is it that is obstructing Dhamma and not walking the way that the Lord taught, apart from oneself? At the time of the Buddha, Dhamma was true Dhamma and they learned Dhamma so as to experience Dhamma and truly practise it, and they did not hold back and turn Dhamma into the world. I (Acariya) would like to tell you that I myself am not entirely good in all ways. In coming here to visit you in London there is both good and bad that I have brought with me and if it turns out to be a mistake I hope that I will have the forgiveness of all of you who are listening. I will now give you an example of "turning Dhamma into the world." To begin with I (Acariya) studied the texts and managed to pass the exams and attain the grade of "Dhamma Tri" and I was very pleased at this -- and it aroused a group of Kilesas. Later on I attained to "Dhamma To" and "Eka" and then I became big and puffed up and the Kilesas increased and a big mass of them arose, so that I could not get away from them. Within me I was full of nothing but Kilesas and I thought I was clever. Later on I became "Maha Parien" and I thought I was even more clever. But in truth I was only clever at remembering the names of the Kilesas, Tanha, and Asavas and many others. I knew only the names, but this never struck me for if it had I could have got some of the Kilesas, however few, free from my heart. There was just the thought that I was clever to attain this grade and that grade. If one does not look, one does not know when //Dhamma turns into the world.// As soon as I turned and became interested in practice and the Citta aimed at the meanings of Dhamma, the swollen pride gradually diminished and being a Dhamma scholar of this grade and Parien of that grade began to lose their meaning, until I felt ashamed of them and I did not want to breathe the title Maha at all. Then this again became another type of Kilesa, for I understood that this was right thought. Previous to this I liked to have my name and the title Maha well to the fore, but now I wanted "Maha" to be in the background. The Kilesas, then, are Dhamma that is false -- that has changed into the "world." When I had practised more Dhamma, these Kilesas gradually broke up and disappeared from the heart. In telling you this I don't intend to insinuate anything against anyone for I am just telling you about myself and how I used to be, and this is what I call "Dhamma turning into the world." If one does not understand Dhamma one will never be able to cure the Kilesas which can hide themselves in subtle and strange ways. The word "Samadhi" which so far I had only known by name then became apparent to the heart. When I studied the texts as related above, I memorised by repetition until I became skilled at it both by mouth and in the heart, but I came to know the truth of some of these things when I practised as hard as I could. But here I do not mean that I knew these things until the Kilesas arose as big as a mountain -- while self was the size of a mouse or an elephant, the essential meaning is the same. I am just telling you the story of the Kilesas which are found in the Citta and the owner (oneself) must be one who knows them for himself and gets rid of them by himself. //Samadhi is firm stability of the heart// and it became steadily more firm and stable. Then I knew both the name and the nature of Samadhi and I knew it with my own heart. When I examined the elements (Dhatus) and Khandhas I saw that the body (rupa-kaya) is made up of the four Dhatus both internally and externally and all of them are within the scope of the Ti-Lakkhana -- Aniccam, Dukkham and Anatta. //Concerning Panna// (wisdom) I had already got the name of it and I had seen the heart do work using wisdom as hard as it was able to, continuously, without letting up -- which is the way of those who practise. Mindfulness and wisdom are Dhammas which one knows for oneself. Then there are no doubts left about what is called Magga-Phala, for "Magga" is the mindfulness and wisdom which steadily makes the Kilesas break away and leave the heart and makes one see in the heart that Dukkha, Samudaya, Nirodha, and Magga, have been truths right from the beginning. When mindfulness and wisdom can read the truth rightly until it has been accepted by the heart, doubt comes to an end and one who has no doubt can live peacefully without being disturbed by anything ever again. This is the end of the story. Dhamma then is Dhamma, the world is the world, each of them is true and each of them exists independently by itself and the disturbance between the Citta and all things no longer takes place. The phrase "Tesam Vupasamo Sukho" does not mean that having died because the Sankharas have ceased is the only Sukha. But that the quelling of those Sankharas that are the basis of Samudaya (the origin of Dukkha), that can cause the Kilesas to arise, is then also Sukha even though one is not yet dead. Today we have explained "Dhamma as Dhamma" and "Dhamma which becomes changed into the way of the world." If one can practise as they did in the time of the Buddha, then one will get results as they did in the time of the Buddha. But it is a sorry thing that Dhamma is the truth yet we generally like to play with it, and the thing that shows up until it becomes bothersome is the argument which is generally put in the words: "Magga, Phala, and Nibbana can no longer be attained in this age anymore," and that "Whoever practises well and however much, has no hope of penetrating (Enlightenment)." It is as if there were somebody who monopolised Magga, Phala, and Nibbana just for himself, as though he were omniscient (Sabbannu), even though he is so full of Kilesas that nobody is bold enough to compete. Then Buddhism is liable to be just a name. As for the truth of Dhamma in the circle of those who understand that they have faith in Buddhism, they have been robbed by the Kilesas and plundered, taken, and eaten so that there is almost nothing left in the heart, body, and speech at all. If they continue to oppose Dhamma by understanding as they do now, in the future I am afraid it will be a religion of text books and there will just be the names left. * * * Questions and Answers Q1 W1: The Venerable Pannavaddho said: "One aspect of the Citta will go looking for Dhamma, and another aspect of the heart wants to go the way of the world." What way should we go? A: When the two fight together, if the Citta inclines to and goes the way of the world, the Dhamma loses. The Lord Buddha and the Savakas were not desiccated wood or dead people, for they were people like us. The Lord Buddha gave up his wealth and possessions including his servants and family so that he could go out and become ordained. This showed that he was a warrior who opposed the way of the world until nothing could resist him as if the whole world was shaken by him. Who does not love their wife and children? And it is normal to cherish wealth, possessions and servants, but the Lord gave up all this because he saw that his way was better. The Lord Buddha and the Savakas in no small numbers fought and made up their minds to turn towards the way of this Dhamma and to practise and fight with the "world" within the realm of the heart until they won and gained freedom. As for us, we have been defeated by the Kilesas in every becoming and birth. Do we never think that we would like to defeat them? Or are we so afraid to get free from Dukkha that we do not like opposing them? To compare the two, what is worse and more cruel than the Kilesas, and what is better at leading people to what is most excellent than Dhamma? Which will one take as best? Good and bad, we know them already from the above comparison. As for the Kilesas, they dwell in our hearts and they are already there. If they were excellent, we should have been excellent long ago, so there is no need to choose -- it is a waste of time. Q2 W2: This question arose from my Citta. I cannot make decisions -- I am not sure how to do what is best. A: How long have we people lived in this world? And we have probably had problems arising all the time which we must solve. Don't you know how you acted in regard to some of those problems so that you have been able to live up to the present time? Q3 W2: Should one learn from mistakes such as that? A: There are many ways of solving problems. One may give in entirely. If one sees that one should oppose, then oppose. Or if one sees that one should agree, then agree -- and if one knows that in a given instance, acting in a particular way one will be able to win, then act in that way if you do not want to be a person who always loses out. But if losing is the way of virtue and winning is Mara, then it is good to lose. Those who are people of Dhamma lost in this way. Convicts like to get the upper hand over other people, and then they have to submit to being put in prison. But is it good to lose out to the Kilesas in this way -- like a convict? One should examine this carefully in detail. Q4 M1: If one does Samadhi using the rise and fall of the abdomen (as the object of attention) and pain arises, should one concentrate on the pain or upon the rise and fall of the abdomen? A: If one does it in the usual way, painful feeling will not yet have arisen enough to warrant withdrawing the Citta to examine it. If Dukkha arises strongly then one must withdraw from watching the rise and fall of the abdomen and turn to examine the pain so as to know the truth. If one is busily engaged in holding on to the rise and fall of the abdomen, then one will never know the truth -- which is Dukkha. Then the Citta will get bored and withdraw from the work entirely and one will never gain results. But if one examines Dukkha and it truly becomes so strong that one cannot stand it, when it is incredibly strong then one must give way a little. But the important point here is that the Citta is not willing to give way entirely and withdraw. One needs to understand this for if the Citta sticks at it, it can quell the Dukkha. Because the Citta examines and divides up the Dukkha to find out whether it is Dukkha of the body or of the Citta. If the Citta is skilled in wisdom one will probably be fully cognizant and able to extract feeling (Vedana). Then something wonderful such as one has never before experienced will happen at this time -- and one will never forget it. Q5 M1: That "examining" -- how does one do it? A: Examining means to analyse the nature of Dukkha, dissecting and looking at it thus: In which spot is Dukkha most prominent? then we understand that that is Dukkha. One then examines precisely in that place saying "Where exactly is the pain -- in the bones? Or muscles? Or skin?" The Citta must point to where Dukkha is strongest. If one knows that the Dukkha is in the bone, then one should examine further thus: "If one should die they would take this bone and cremate it. But why should the bone not be painful then?" When one has examined this fully one will see that the same thing applies to every part of the body. In other words each is true in its own way according to its nature. But in contrast to this, it is the Citta that grasps Dukkha and takes it as being Self -- and Self as Dukkha! One will then know a method of quelling the Dukkha which accords with the level of one's mindfulness and wisdom and of gaining knowledge of a type which is wonderful. This which I have spoken about is for all those who practise the way, to take up and practise whenever the necessity arises, such as when one has sat in meditation for a long time, or whenever one has pain or fever which gives much Dukkha. Q6 W1: If the pain is in the Citta, can one use this method to examine it? And will it get rid of it? A: Yes, one can use it. Dukkha in the heart means being sorry, regretful, worried, or perturbed in various ways. If one examines this the Dukkha disappears in the same way. But the way of examining to get rid of this Dukkha in the heart must depend upon the character of the person as to what is suitable. If it is a person, who is not resolute and bold another method must be used. The Citta must look at and examine itself. It must turn itself round and go in and search for a way to quell the Dukkha which suits the character of one's Citta. Otherwise it will conflict with one's character and one will not get the results that one should get. Q7 W2: If we take the example of the Lord Buddha and leave home for good, it will be difficult for wife and children. For people such as us, we are uncertain whether it will be good or not. A: When one is still not sure of anything one should not get rid of it. Buddhism does not order or force people, saying that everybody must dispose of everything completely like the Lord Buddha. But we should accept that we are not able to do this like the Lord Buddha and we should imitate (the Lord) in ways that we see as being suitable for us who are followers of a teacher. But we should be watchful, for if we are heedless we may think that we are his followers yet that we cannot do things like he can, but we may do things according to the dictates of the Kilesas and forget to think of the virtues of the teacher -- the Sasada (the world teacher, the Buddha) -- who taught that people should have diligence and energy so as to be able to follow the teacher. Therefore we should keep this in mind and reflect on it so as not to forget ourselves and allow the Kilesas to laugh at us. Q8 W2: I would like to leave my family to go and practise Dhamma but I am afraid the children would be very sorry. A: One cannot go yet, but nobody has come to penalise us. We are like fruit which when it is still not ripe must remain attached to the tree -- until the time comes when it is fully mature. Then it becomes ripe by itself and once this happens it can fall from the tree at any time. We must still wait until we are ready and able to dispose of everything and not imitate the ways of others when we are not yet ready. But we should also not think only about whether other people are going to be sorry, for we ought to consider the disadvantages that are inherently there for ourselves. Then we will not be careless due to other people being the sole cause. Q9 W2: If we break up our relationships or the attachments (Upadana) to others, is it likely that we would still be able to live at home with them? A: Tan Acharn did not answer but explained to two Thai followers and the two western monks that: "If I say it is alright it would be like opening a way to let one who has left home return again. In the end they would not be able to get free from their attachments (Upadana). The truth is that the Lord Buddha and the Arahants had already got rid of attachments in the Khandhas, but they still relied on the Khandhas everyday until Nibbana. There is no indication that they broke away from the Khandhas and went to stay anywhere else." Q10 W2: I have read "Forest Dhamma" and felt that Tan Acharn was a strict person. But now I have met Tan Acharn and seen that he can laugh and tell a joke and smile. A: This shows that that book was not written by this person, is that so? Or otherwise, maybe you think that someone else wrote it, or that I wrote it myself but that I wrote it when I was feeling strict. (The others present indicated that they agreed with the questioner's observation). Q11 W2: When will you hold another meeting? A: On Friday evening, 21st June. On the 22nd June we must say farewell and return in the morning. When I return (to Thailand) I will think of my brothers and sisters in London. I am a person living in the world, the world is angry so I can be angry, the world laughs so I can laugh. We are not brick Bhikkhus or cement Bhikkhus. Here in London the weather is cold and it is getting colder. When I have gone I will think of my brothers and sisters in London but I am not sure whether I shall be able to come again, nor when. But some of my brothers and sisters in London may be able to go and visit me in Thailand. My brothers and sisters in Thailand are anxious for Tan Acharn, and I am anxious for them. This is because being associated with each other in Buddhism, one is bound to be concerned for each other always in regard to Sukha and Dukkha, which is found in people throughout the world, which is something that I can help to reduce or remove with whatever strength I have. * * * Discussion in the Morning Thursday, 20th June, 1974 Comment: This morning at the time for giving Pindapata food to the Bhikkhus at Dhammapadipa Vihara, Colonel (Special) Mom Rajawong Pongtit Diskul, Assistant Military Attache to the Thai Embassy in London and Mr. Brian Dyas and Mrs. Sue Tucker, of the Hampshire Buddhist Society, gave Pindapata food to the Bhikkhus. Later they asked Ven. Acariya Maha Boowa if he would answer questions as follows: Q1 Mr. Dyas: I had a letter from Ven. Pannavaddho so I knew that Ven. Acariya was coming to London. I would like to ask about methods of developing mindfulness at times other than when one is sitting in Samadhi -- such as, when one is doing work. Can one do this? A: How should a business man train himself in mindfulness? What must he keep in mind (reflect on)? He must have mindfulness and clear awareness (Sati Sampajanna) and know of himself, what he is doing and why continually without forgetting himself. This is how a business man can develop mindfulness. Someone who develops meditation (Bhavana) should be able to do it in the various aspects of his business that he must be involved in, because mindfulness and wisdom dwell in the heart which is "the owner" of its work, in which it should be able to involve mindfulness and wisdom every time -- or be able to use them much more than business men do generally. Then there is nothing to stop him maintaining mindfulness in every aspect of his work. Q2 Mrs. Wint: I understand that the meditation practice of repeating "Buddho" should only be used when sitting in meditation. Can one use it at other times or not? A: When you do your work do you have to use the Citta to think of other things elsewhere or not? If one meditates "Buddho" but the Citta goes away thinking about other things it is no use even when one is sitting doing meditation. Therefore in doing meditation of whatever kind, if mindfulness is present with the heart and one can keep the meditation in mind the whole time, one will be able to use it any time and there is no prohibition for someone who is interested in training themselves. Q3 Mrs. Cherry: I feel that my heart is like a monkey jumping from one branch to another. What should I do in this case? A: Use the method of meditation of "the monkey catching the monkey." In other words, try to get the Citta to think of the meditation word. Mindfulness, the means by which one keeps it in mind and knows it, is quicker than the monkey. Therefore, one can get mindfulness to catch the Citta which certainly is like a monkey. Q4 Mrs. Wint: There is a woman who wants to make an appointment to come and see tan Acharn so as to seek help in overcoming a problem concerning her Citta. Before she came to Buddhism she went to some Indians and had faith in various Devas. Now she feels that the Indian Devas still get into her and make her afraid. She used to be a well-known piano player, but she has stopped work now. A: This is the story of the Citta deceiving its own owner. The owner thinks in a certain way that deceives the owner, and then she believes that the Devas of India come to deceive her even though it is she who is deceiving herself. There is a story of a Kammatthana Bhikkhu who was newly ordained and was afraid of ghosts. His teacher took him to stay in a cremation ground [*] and told him to sit here and the teacher said he would go and sit over there, some distance away. His teacher also told him to sit and close his eyes and meditate until he came to call him, and then he should gently come out of meditation. The teacher then went to sit a little way off, stayed for a short while and then got up and returned to the Wat. [*] The cremation ground associated with most thai villages is quite primitive, consisting typically of bamboo forest with clearings in between clumps of bamboos. There are usually no buildings at all and the cremation is carried out on open fires built of a pile of logs. In fact the only external evidence that it is a cremation ground is the remaining ashes from past fires. As for the newly ordained Bhikkhu, he sat with his back to where the Teacher sat and did his meditation practice without any thought of fear because he thought that the Teacher was sitting watching out for the ghosts. After a long time, a little apprehensive thought about ghosts arose. Then he slowly got up and walked to find the place where the Teacher said he would be sitting. When he got there and did not see the Teacher, fear arose and he ran to the Wat. The Teacher then said to him: "I have not yet called you, so why have you come here?" Then he spoke sternly to him: "This shows that when you thought the teacher was there with you, you were not afraid, but as soon as you did not see the Teacher where you thought he was, fear of ghosts arose stronger and stronger until you had to run to the Wat without waiting for me to come and get you." This indeed, is the nature of the Citta that deceives oneself without there being any need for a ghost to come and deceive one at all. Therefore in saying that Indian Devas get into her and make her afraid, it is most likely to be her own Citta that creates its own deception. Q5 Mr. Pongtit: How should one train in Kammatthana so that it is not dangerous? A: If one plants a tree and then frequently moves it from one place to another, it will not grow well. Training in Samadhi, if one changes the method often, it is not likely to give results. One should train oneself to set up the breath as one's object of attention and to be mindful constantly at whatever point the breath is felt. This is not dangerous because the Citta is not going outside to search out and about things to come and deceive and scare oneself. Investigating Dhamma is similar but the Citta must be interested in investigating and one must not let it go off track, or off the path. Q6 Mrs. Cherry: I meditate repeating "Buddho" doing it one way, thus when I breathe in "Bud" and when I breathe out "dho"; is this a good way? A: There is nothing wrong with it and it can bring peace of heart if it suits one's character and one likes it, and it is likely to bring results also, if one has mindfulness. But if one does not have mindfulness to supervise and control it, then whatever type of meditation practice one does it will be the type without mindfulness and the type that does not bring results. Q7 Mr. Dyas: Doing Anapanasati, one must keep watching the breath. But what is it that one looks at? Does one look to see that one has breath as well as the one who sees the breath? A: To begin with one has mindfulness to watch the breath entering and leaving as well as the one who knows the breath. But later on the breath and the Citta will gradually find each other and fuse together. Then even the person who is doing the practice disappears leaving only the one who knows with "knowing" alone without being concerned about anything else. * * * * * * * *