TWELFTH MEETING
                    Friday Evening, 21st June, 1974
  
                              Dhamma Talk

  (To begin with Tan Acharn talked with those Thai people who had come.
  He talked about people who live off Buddhism, such as those who get
  photographs or pictures of various Acariyas and sell them. After this
  he gave the following talk to all who had come.)
  
  Just now we were speaking about those who do harm to Buddhism, either
  intentionally or unintentionally. Things which are wrong always were
  wrong, but they are things which have already happened in the past
  arising from things which are true, or deceptive, genuine or
  artificial, and internal or external.
  
  Truly speaking, they arise only in the heart, for there is a great
  deal of deceptiveness in each of our hearts, including the one who is
  telling you this at present who has been like this and known about
  himself because of his training in mindful awareness -- or, because of
  having studied constantly the state of his Citta. Thus he was able to
  know which things are deceptive and which are true.
  
  Generally speaking there are only deceptive things constructed so that
  we deludedly go after them without being in the least aware that they
  are super-deceptions. For in fact we think that they are entirely true
  so we believe in them and go after them without putting up any
  counter-reaction at all as a means of resisting or proving this kind
  of thinking. For example a person sits in meditation and in the first
  three seconds he feels that it is true. He fixes his attention on
  Buddho...Buddho...and he feels that it is the true Buddho for four or
  five seconds, until he reaches one minute and then all the false
  things start to flow from the Citta more and more, giving birth to
  children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, branching and
  spreading out and all of it is deception. Meanwhile the word "Buddho"
  has disappeared, where to one does not know, and all that is left is
  the story of emotionally charged objects and situations (Arammana)
  with which he has been used to thinking and imagining and deceiving
  himself. This is the means by which he is dragged away without being
  aware of it and after that, assenting to go along fascinated at once,
  going off engrossed with these false things.
  
  "Buddho" then disappears and Anapanasati is silent -- even though he
  is still breathing -- but it is silent as regards paying attention,
  silent as regards the way of fixing his attention with determination
  and with mindfulness -- all this has disappeared into silence. As soon
  as he is able to recollect himself, he says; "I have done meditation
  for long enough but I did not see any result arise whatsoever: why was
  that?" It is right that thoughts of this sort should arise, but then
  he goes wrong again. In other words, thoughts such as this are as if
  to say that he sees the fault in himself, but he does not think: "I
  did not practise meditation for this sort of result, but for some
  other kind of result of what sort I don't know." For this would call
  his attention to the fact that he should have mindfulness! But he
  returns to his previous state of delusion -- again, saying: "...I have
  sat for a long time and I think I will rest for a short while and
  after I get up I will really have a go at it." But he does not sleep
  for a short while nor just a little, for as soon as he goes to sleep
  he sleeps deeply until the sun has risen, and when he wakes: "Oh
  goodness!" The next day he does it again and so it goes on
  deceitfully, continually.
  
  The next day it starts off with three seconds at the beginning and
  four seconds the day after, and so on getting worse steadily. This is
  the way of those who are super-deceptive. Apart from this he also
  harms himself saying: "Here, I have been practising meditation for a
  long time and I do not see that I have gained anything in thoughts or
  virtue and why should I go on doing this meditation? It is most likely
  that I am a person with unfortunate tendencies of character with
  little merit and little virtue which are not appropriate to the way
  and the Dhamma of the Lord Buddha, for if I go on doing this it will
  not lead to anything of value and it will be nothing but a waste of
  time. It is better to stop entirely!"...and this, without ever
  thinking whether stopping like this is truly better or whether
  stopping meditation is truly a good thing. For if it was truly good,
  people all over this world who never do any meditation ought to be
  good people since long ago. Again, one can return and think: "How can
  stopping be better than doing meditation? For having done this
  meditation and not yet seen any results, if I stop in what way will it
  truly be better? From what did the lack of results come?... Just from
  myself... It cheats me continually, for what is false externally and
  false within the Citta finds it good to stay there.
  
  Whatever things are false, those which are false within oneself are
  the important ones. For deceiving oneself is a very important thing
  which one should examine and investigate. All of you have been cheated
  and deceived enough already. The owner's heart deceiving the owner.
  What has been said above briefly is enough to be able to know how much
  one has been deceived by what is debased. One should know that the
  first three or four seconds of practice are good but that the next
  three or four are not, and then one should establish mindfulness and
  enter the practice again, and go on establishing and re-entering the
  practice again and again continually. Then the time will come when it
  knows at once when the Citta displays anything which is going in the
  wrong direction. One will begin to know what is going against one's
  intended purpose and when one begins to know one will begin to
  establish mindfulness and to set the Citta to do the practice anew.
  Knowing, one enters into the practice again and again, and then later
  on one "knows" continuously. One comes to know what is unreliable
  (trivial) and one knows that the lack of those results of the Citta
  that one wants is because of this?"
  
  As soon as one determines to practise truly and properly the false
  side of oneself is likely to do the same thing. In other words the
  Kilesas wait to try and get in during those times when one is off-
  guard and unmindful. If one has set one's determination, one's
  posture, and one's direction firmly, they give way. But "give way"
  here, should not be understood to mean that they give way and lie down
  like we do! They give way waiting and watching and as soon as and
  whenever they can get at you, they immediately do so, pouncing on you
  quicker than a cat after a rat, and then they disappear, silent. They
  wait to hit and beat and smash in whenever one is off-guard. If one is
  not off-guard, they do nothing; but when one is over-confident that
  one is not off-guard, that is when they are sure to be encouraged and
  one is cheated continually -- probably in every instance.
  
  This Acharn who is telling you this at present, has also been like
  this. Therefore it is important to search for a method and a suitable
  place for reforming the owner and helping him to practise diligently
  in many directions and ways as I have written in the "Biography of Tan
  Acharn Mun" or in "The Practice of Kammatthana in the manner of the
  Ven. Acariya Mun," or in the book called "Forest Dhamma."
  
  But Bhikkhus are not the same as lay people, for wherever they go it
  is convenient and comfortable. The place where they practise is
  convenient and comfortable, because they have only one duty. Like when
  they go into the forest and hills and frightening places, because
  there are such places and there truly are various types of fierce
  animals such as tigers and bears and snakes.
  
  When one goes to stay in such places one's feelings change. For
  example being lazy in regard to maintaining effort gradually
  diminishes. One has little laziness, and as soon as one goes into a
  critical situation all laziness vanishes. I do not know where it goes
  but one is left with no way out and nowhere to escape to. Then
  mindfulness comes of itself at once and when one determines to
  practice with effort, why does one break into a sweat? One sweats
  because of the fear of death and at such a time mindfulness is good.
  Sometimes it even happens that a tiger roars repeatedly right by the
  path one uses for walking "Cankama." This has in fact happened to me
  and it does not come just to have a talk! It has happened to me many
  times, how many I don't know, but that tiger roaring there was no
  small cat -- it was a big striped tiger. [*]

        [*] The Thai word "Seua" covers most of the larger cat family,
            so prior to this it is not certain whether a tiger or
            leopard or panther, etc., is referred to.
  
  
  At that moment it seems as if all one's hair stands on end -- and why
  is it that one shivers even though it is not cold? But the Citta is
  not allowed to withdraw and it goes round and round descending to here
  (pointing to the heart). Whether one lives or dies, at this time one
  submits oneself to the Lord Buddha. Now there is just the Lord Buddha,
  the Dhamma, and the Sangha to guard and preserve one's heart and if
  one's time has truly come, one's Citta is not careless and unguarded
  and one has submitted one's Citta to the Lord Buddha, the Dhamma and
  the Sangha in all ways and whenever one goes one is prepared to go.
  "While I live may I have mindfulness and may I not be caught at a
  disadvantage. Whatever comes to take me and eat me, so be it, but I
  will not abandon the Lord Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha." The
  Citta submits completely and as soon as the Citta has submitted to the
  Lord Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha, all longing ceases. The
  longing or cherishing of life is no longer there. Affection and
  possessiveness for the body have all gone and there remains only the
  Citta which is single-minded in the way and in Dhamma.
  
  Fear disappears entirely at that time and there is no trace of it left
  at all. The Citta has concentrated together and plumbed straight down
  to the Lord Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha in the heart
  completely, and it seems then as if nothing can ever come to disturb
  one again. When the Citta has plumbed straight down it becomes full of
  strength and all fear disappears and after that, no matter whether the
  tiger roars or comes right up in front of one, one feels able to go up
  to it and stroke it unconcernedly with Metta and sympathy, and a
  feeling that one has a close friendship with it, because both of us
  are the same in having birth, old age, pain and death. In feeling this
  one has not even the slightest thought that the tiger is dangerous and
  that it may harm one if one were to go and stroke it. When this sort
  of thing happens there is just a feeling of intimacy and gentleness
  with Metta for it and therefore all fear disappears.
  
  There are many ways and methods for training and disciplining the
  Citta. But once one has found a good basis and something which one can
  use to recollect and reflect upon one may, in the future, bring up
  this basis and put it into practice. Then wherever one goes to live,
  in whatever sort of place, when one is at one's wit's end and
  cornered, that which one has done and gained results from will
  immediately come to one.
  
  In confronting danger or confronting a situation, each and every time,
  if one is a "warrior," one is bound to gain an important lesson from
  it. Unless, that is, one hesitates on the verge and cannot make up
  one's mind. Then one can go mad because the Citta is uncertain, will
  not commit itself or accept anything and it vacillates. But if the
  Citta truly accepts the situation there is nothing which can overpower
  the Citta which has become attached to Dhamma so that the two are as
  one, and there will also be a certainty at this time that nothing is
  able to do any harm to one, whether it be an animal, a tiger, or
  anything else, or any other danger in the world. One does not fear
  anything at all of any sort from which one has ever been in danger and
  which one has ever feared. Thus, the Citta and Dhamma, when they fuse
  together as one, have power over everything else in the world. For
  this reason, Dhamma is superior to all the three worlds.
  
  I feel that the power of the Citta is greater than everything in this
  world. This is the way to train and harass one's deceit -- which is
  linked with the "Great Deceit" that has always been there in one's
  Citta. If one lives in normal surroundings and does not go to any
  place where one is cornered with no way out, it will invade and
  overpower one and destroy everything. But when one goes into a
  situation where one is cornered with no way out, one equally puts
  pressure on it -- although, generally speaking, the deceit is the one
  that applies the pressure, and one does nothing to put pressure on it.
  But if one does put pressure on it, even only once, one will talk
  about it endlessly, for years without stopping -- not stopping until
  one dies; but then it presses and squeezes one out smooth and one
  never says anything. Isn't this person showing off his cleverness too
  much? But in truth it is like this.
  
  In other words, when the Dhamma enters and reaches the heart because
  of the above-mentioned harassment, one can then talk as though one's
  mouth is full of words because of this experience which went to one's
  heart at that time.
  
  In that one trained oneself to the utmost and willingly submitted
  one's life to "the way and Dhamma" with complete commitment in various
  circumstances, the result is truly satisfying. As to winning -- what
  is it? It displays a wonder which is also satisfying. How can one ever
  forget until the day one dies!
  
  That is enough explanation for today, so now we may have some
  discussion.
  

  (After this was translated nobody raised any questions so Ven. Acariya
  went on to talk further on Dhamma as follows):
  
  If the Citta has still not seen anything from itself in a time of
  necessity, it still has not seen the importance of itself, and so it
  will always take refuge in other people. In the Dhamma that the Lord
  taught, the saying: "Attahi attano Natho" -- "Self is the refuge of
  self" is still not accepted in the heart. But whenever something
  happens that thing is completed in a satisfactory way, one will then
  believe the Dhamma saying -- "Attahi attano natho" -- in a way that
  truly impresses the heart.
  
  The Citta that has known and seen the truth at a time when it was at
  an impasse, with no way out, such as when one has a fever and painful
  feeling overpowers one, or when one sits for a long time, or when one
  meets with some incident or other which is a strong or violent thing,
  maybe threatening one's life, if one is a true "warrior" the Citta
  goes round all over oneself without thinking of any hope from anything
  external. That is when the Citta will come to see the importance of
  oneself each and every time. This is a most wonderful thing, and if
  one gets past those incidents, one will probably have no anxiety in
  regard to life and death.
  
  Concerning painful feeling (Dukkha Vedana), in whatever way or in
  whatever circumstances it arises or happens, the anxiety as to whether
  one will be able to fight against it or not, where one will be born
  again after one dies, or the fear that one will be at a disadvantage
  or that one has wasted one's life for when painful feeling overwhelms
  the Citta until it reaches a point where it has no mindfulness to help
  one's heart -- then how will it be?...nothing of this sort will then
  be in the Citta at all. In other words, when it reaches a time of
  necessity like this, the Citta and mindfulness immediately go in and
  find each other so as to get into the "front line of battle." One can
  talk of it like this in truth, because it has fought before and won
  before and when one has almost reached the time to die, mindfulness
  and wisdom will quickly find each other.
  
  When something of this sort happens, mindfulness and wisdom join
  forces and they are not likely to flee or to withdraw but will
  immediately spin round and go in to fight this that is happening. In
  such a case, whether one lives or dies one is not willing to be a
  slave, but rather because of one's faith in Dhamma and faith in
  oneself one will want to know the truth of this that appears to be
  happening in the Citta. Faith in Dhamma right here! Where else should
  one have faith in Dhamma? The text books say it correctly, but if the
  truth which is the Dhamma in one's heart is not found, there is
  nothing to confirm them and to act as their witness so as to give one
  confidence. But as soon as the heart meets up with some incident and
  it gets to know and see it quite clearly and distinctly, then it shows
  no disagreement in comparison with the Dhamma which they reveal in the
  text books.
  
  None of the sages, when they were in times of real necessity, liked to
  stay where there were many people and much disturbance. They liked to
  find a place which suited them and which accorded appropriately with
  the way they practised and succeeded in gaining results of the kind
  that come in isolated or lonely places --  isolated both in body and
  heart.
  
  People like us do not act like that. As soon as we begin to get ill,
  you know how it is: "Oh, where are all my children? Where are all my
  grandchildren? This child is not looking after me and my grandchildren
  are not paying any attention to me; where have they all gone to where
  have all my relations and friends disappeared to? What's this? It's
  not good for them all to go and lose all interest in me. Who dislikes
  me? Nobody has any sympathy for me -- suffering of life and death and
  nobody even turns and looks at me." The Citta gets increasingly
  troubled and they cannot search for some basis to grasp hold of so as
  to reduce and diminish it by themselves. "My husband before when we
  lived together, was good, but when I am truly about to die I haven't
  seen his face here at all. My husband is bad, my children are bad, my
  grandchildren are bad, they are all bad."
  
  Because it is bad within her heart, the filth which is there is
  brought out and thrown about externally, making everything filthy. For
  the "filthy water" in her heart is the fear of death.
  
  Our inadequacy is what goes about throwing filth at other people and
  venting discontent. This is what is meant by "having nothing as a
  basic principle (or basis) in the heart." Then we do not think about
  "Attahi Attano Natho," for our refuge is entirely based in other
  people.
  
  Having been born we took refuge in other people a long time ago. When
  a person is born he must, to start with, take refuge in other people,
  such as mother, father, nursemaid, one person after another, until one
  comes to teachers, professors, and so on. Then afterwards one still
  wants to go on taking refuge in other people until one reaches the day
  of one's death without ever having the least thought of taking refuge
  in oneself. Therefore it is a difficult thing, and it remains
  difficult to the day of one's death and one can neither set up or
  establish any principle or basis within one's heart at all.
  
  The Lord Buddha taught that one should take refuge in oneself --
  Attahi Attano Natho." As for taking refuge in other people, one is
  already doing that as much as is necessary to have got the resulting
  value from others, or enough anyway to give oneself strength so that
  one will be able to take refuge in oneself in the future. This is an
  important principle that Buddhists should constantly keep in mind.
  
  Various activities are taught by mother and father, by teachers and
  professors, by the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha, and one should
  get the method from the knowledge and understanding which one has
  studied and learned and put it into practice as someone who is endowed
  with effort and energy so as to be able to help oneself. When one has
  seen the importance of oneself, other things seem unimportant and one
  lets go of them all. That is the way of the Citta of somebody that has
  been trained, for when it is having a truly bad time, it will shake
  off everything whether relatives, friends, or anyone else, and it will
  not want them to come and be a nuisance at all. One only has this duty
  to do and no other, to let the Citta whirl round and down into it,
  because one has no longing or yearning for anything in this world.
  Earth, water, air, fire -- one has examined these and seen quite
  clearly that everything in this world is composed of earth, water,
  air, and fire, and even though they are combined together, things are
  still only combinations of earth, water, air, and fire.
  
  We all give them names such as the body, oneself, one's possessions,
  this or that, and so on endlessly, but things of this nature do not
  exist -- and when they reach the time to die they also do not exist,
  for they are going to do nothing but break up.
  
  The mindfulness and wisdom which one has developed by training
  separates out the elements (Dhatu) and Khandhas with complete clarity.
  Everything of all kinds are examined completely in the light of truth.
  Then the Citta is true, the elements are true, feeling (Vedana),
  memory (Sanna), thought (Sankhara), and consciousness (Vinnana) or
  whatever else, are true. Everything of all kinds are true and there is
  no disturbance and one can pass by contentedly this being "Sugato" --
  going well. There is nothing in one's surroundings which is a
  disturbance or troublesome, one does not create Dukkha and difficulty
  for oneself or others, and one has supreme happiness and contentment.
  
  When one dies there is no need to chant "Kusala Dhamma, Akusala
  Dhamma," [*] nor to invite Bhikkhus to the funeral thereby disturbing
  everyone. This is what I say and Venerable Boowa of Wat Pa Ban Tard
  speaks like this with certainty. "Make up your minds!" I have been
  constantly telling them this giving talks in this way and teaching
  relatives and lay people. I have developed myself and trained myself
  and I have been ordained many Vassa already and I am still developing
  just Kusala Dhamma, trying to develop Kusala.

        [*] This is the chant from the Dhammasangini matika and is
            nearly always chanted at funerals. It is composed of a list
            of the possible states of consciousness, the first two being
            "Kusala dhamma" (good states of mind) and "Akusala dhamma"
            (bad states of mind).
  
  
  Whoever wants Kusala Dhamma should develop it themselves. After one
  has died those who are still living go about collecting Bhikkhus to
  give merit and Kusala Dhamma. They chase after the Bhikkhus who have
  gone into the forests and wild places and it is all a disturbing
  nuisance and I don't want it to be like that. In gaining Kusala -- the
  skill (cleverness) which is put into one's Citta -- "Kusala" meaning
  skill here -- one must search for it and get enough. The method which
  will bring happiness and contentment to oneself one should try and do
  from now on. After one is dead, for them to go and invite Bhikkhus to
  come and chant "Kusala Dhamma..." which just becomes a nuisance to the
  Bhikkhus is no good. It is contrary to the purpose of Buddhism which
  teaches people to be clever, to look for what is good and to make it
  part of themselves while they are still alive, so that when one has
  reached one's time one is "Sugato" and one goes on in the way of one
  who is cured of worry.
  
  When one has reached the end point and the time comes to die -- or at
  least, when Grandfather Boowa dies -- please do not invite Bhikkhus to
  come and don't make trouble for them. For if Grandfather Boowa has
  been doing Kusala Dhamma, since the day of starting practice until now
  and if he is still stupid, he is beyond help, so let him alone die and
  it will only be Grandfather Boowa who sinks. But do not let other
  people come and be stupid also. In this I am speaking bluntly, for
  this is the way I talk to my followers and it is the truth also. I am
  never concerned about anything and when the time comes to get rid of
  this lot then I will get rid of it with pleasure and die easily and
  entirely free from anxiety.
  
  The whole world embraces the elements and Khandhas and when the time
  comes to die and to abandon them "Oh, sadness, sorrow, and grief"
  everywhere they do not want to accept death. When the body is dead
  they want it to live, and when the time for death has come they do not
  want to go. It is all troublesome so do not let it be like this. The
  Lord Buddha thus let us know the truth; "When the time has come to go,
  then go. But when the time has not come to go, then live." If there is
  any orange juice and sweet drinks bring them over, if it is still not
  the time I will drink them all. But when one is about to die, don't
  come and be a nuisance, for then one will drop it -- it is much too
  heavy -- "Bhara have Pancakkhandha" [*] -- and having dropped it,
  going along in the true natural way, and having passed on contentedly,
  one comes to the ultimate fulfilment of one who practises." The Lord
  Buddha was like that and so were the Savakas, and we have followed the
  footprints of the Lord Buddha -- how else could it be? Without doubt
  it must be this way.

        [*] "The five Khandhas (groups which form body and mind) are a
             heavy burden."


  There! That's enough, I have given two talks already. From tomorrow I
  shall no longer be here for I will return to Thailand, I will think of
  all my brothers and sisters here. That I came this time and determined
  to come and meet and help people here is because of thinking only of
  the heart and this is why Tan Acharn came to England. I did not come
  for any worldly purposes at all, for whether staying in my Wat or any
  other Wat or going to any place in Thailand, I never think of going
  for worldly purposes, and I never have it in mind to go for goods or
  money or wealth, but I go for the Cittas of people so that they may
  gain something of value. In coming to England I also have a feeling of
  fulness in my heart in the same way. Intentions are more important
  than anything else. If one's intentions are good, everything else of
  all kinds are also good, but if one's intentions are not good,
  everything is spoilt and goes wrong accordingly. Therefore in coming
  to visit my brothers and sisters in London, I came with "heart" [*]
  and when I go I shall think of your "heart." If our fortunes should
  cross, in due course we may come here again or some of you here may go
  over there. In other words you may go to visit us out there or we may
  come from there to visit you here. This world is round and the hearts
  of beings in this world are whirling about in the round of Samsara
  with all the defilement which lead them round to birth and round to
  death endlessly. Therefore please, all of you, try to make your Citta
  become free from the round of Samsara. Then it will be absolutely
  contented and there will be no need to go round and round.
  
        [*] Heart means here "goodwill," "good intention," "a good
            attitude" or "to do with the heart," but there is no exact
            English equivalent.
  
  
  This is enough explanation of Dhamma for today so I will stop. Those
  of you who have anything in your hearts that you want to ask may do so
  now. Tomorrow there will be no time in the morning, for we will eat
  early and then must go.
  
                                 * * *
  

                         Questions and Answers
  
  Q1 M1:
  If one trains and practises Dhamma and then one knows that one has
  Dukkha continually going on and on, what result will one get?
  
  A:
  Usually one sees Dukkha in those things where one finds great
  difficulties. As to one's satisfactions, these are seen to be Sukha.
  As soon as there is some change away from one's satisfactions, one
  sees that as Dukkha, and one does not have the wisdom to cure that
  Dukkha. Finally, one lies down submerged with no interest in searching
  for the way out because one considers that trying to search for the
  way out from Dukkha is difficult. Therefore one must submit to Dukkha
  being one's friend all the time.
  
  The training and practise of Dhamma so as to know Dukkha as it truly
  consists in using meditation and wisdom to examine how to train the
  Citta to draw out the Kilesas until one finds the taste of happiness
  in the Citta. This is bound to help one find true and genuine
  happiness and to get a basic principle to hold firmly in the heart no
  matter what the circumstances are.
  
  
  Q2 W1:
  When one meditates using "Buddho" is it necessary to sit doing
  meditation?
  
  A:
  One can do it in all positions. The Lord Buddha did not teach people
  so that they should get into a tight fix in fighting with everything
  evil, but he taught people to have skill (cleverness) so as to win
  constantly. We therefore should think and search for the way to be
  clever and to be the victor, following the Lord. The Dhamma which has
  been displayed here is ninety five per cent "Forest Dhamma." I have
  explained the importance of meditation to help keep the Citta within
  itself, so do not let the Citta go out externally. For the Citta which
  has a nature that likes to go out externally, doing the meditation
  "Buddho" constantly can help a great deal in curing the problem.
  
  
  The Fat Lady who generally asked Tan Acharn many questions:
  I would like to give the highest thanks to Tan Acharn who has kindly
  come and helped us very much in increasing our knowledge and
  understanding.
  
  A:
  I am very sorry that I cannot speak English and let you understand
  directly. Speaking via an interpreter usually makes it less
  interesting, because it may not be complete as it would be if
  explained directly in the same language.
  

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